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Reviews for Continuation: Fifteen Years in Lothlorien

By : Ertia

From ANON - MarzBar on April 10, 2006
OMG! Poor Orophin. Was he just trying to play diplomat with the filthy men? I hope Legolas and Haldir manage to kill a lot of them. More story soon please.
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From ANON - justso on April 09, 2006
Hey Ertia!

I don't normally review much, but this discussion did have the power to draw me in, as I had been having much the same concerns as 'Thranduil Oropherion'. Particularly passing rape off as a light matter outside the darkfic. I don't feel you have crossed the line, at least not for me, though there are many issues that raise my hackles, the treatment of Legolas by his "superiors" in particular. I have begun to think that Mirie was either unbelieveably cruel or wanting to pay back Legolas/Thranduil for something the readers know nothing about. It is obvious that Legolas did not expect to be treated in this degrading way. He seems rather selfless character, if a bit thoughtless due to his youth, not one to intentionally harm anyone.
'Crowdaughter' expressed my thoughts better than I could have myself, but just a few more words. There might be a reason why Legolas thinks he deserves being treated like dirt, but I do not see any justifiable reason for Celeborn to exhibit this "kick the dog" syndrome. Taking out your frustrations on someone unable to fight back indicates weak personality and lack of control. The same could be said about Haldir. It looks like they are the ones in need of character development.

I wish you would hurry up and post more so we can reach the happy end, look back to entire fic and see the reason why everything had to happen the way it did. We lack sufficient information at the moment. I fully understand why 'Thranduil Oropherion' kept reading even with all the concerns listed - you hope to see an explanation and a turn for the better.

PS. There was a fic in another archive I had to stop reading when I had cried my eyes out in symphaty for the main character and then noticed that author had listed humour alongside with angst in warnings. It was an engrossing story of date rape with aggravating circumstances (i.e. being raped by your best friend) and author seemed to think the main character should only worry about whether he is gay or not. The fic was heading towards the main character going back for more of the same, falling in love with his abuser and all. I could see this happening, but not as a humorous tale. It was rather well written except for this aspect. So, mixing humour and darkfic elements is a risky business. I was not so much galled by the happenings in the story as by the author's attitude to what is happening.

Once more, best luck and post more soon!

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From ANON - Anon on April 08, 2006
Hi, again!
Reading this whole discussion with your 'Thranduil Oropherion' reviewer kindled some questions in me, so I take the luxury to give another review.
Thinking about Haldir's attitude towards Sarnlass and the male courtesan given to himself had me puzzled. Come to think of it: Why *is* haughty Haldir such an ass about the male courtesans? Given the rules of courtesanship, as you describe them in earlier chapters, he should know that the committment to the collar is only temporary and the elves he is scorning and looking down at will most likely sometimes be free again, rid of the collar, and then not very likely to be favorable or thinking very well of him. Also, the very fact that he thinks of himself above their station - or of Sarnlass acting above *his* station towards him when the courtesan wasn't humble and submissive enough for his liking - seems to be a disturbing irritation of perspective to me. If the courtesanship is a willing path chosen by consent of the ones who submit to it, and reversible, there should be no base for Haldir thinking himself better than any of the elves temporarily in that situation. ven more, Haldir seems to be taking out his problems with the former courtesan of Celeborn on another one from Rivendell who had absolutely notghing to do with what happened to him before. So, Haldir's attitude seems to imply that the courtesanship is indeed *more* than some kind of pact to willingly offer sexual service to anybody in need for a time, but something atht indeed besmirches the Elves submitting to the collar or good. I'm astonished then, that he is not warned off this attitude by anyone, but encouraged in doing so by Celeborn. This is puzzling to me, even more so because Celeborn's attitude towards Sarnlass shows that being a courtesan does not necessarily mean to shed all warrior skills or give up on other duties for the community, so there should be no reason to despise anyone taking the collar, especially not stating that 'all the courtesans are unthrustworty', like Haldir does. Or does his attitude resembles the one many human men take toward prostitutes? Taken advantage of them and buying their services is fine, but the women providing those services are still scum to their mind? But then, why would he treat female courtesans differently?

Will you explain Haldir's attitude in a future chapter? Otherwise, I can only hope that he will be humbled thouroughly by Legolas when Legolas has shed the collar and his 'Sarnlass' persona once and for all, either before Legolas returns to Mirkwood, or afterwards, when he comes back to Lothlorien with the Ringquest. Because I do not think that Haldir's attitude is justified,*whatever* another courtesan some tiimes in the past did to him, and he needs some severe dressing down for it!

Otherwise, the institution of temporarily courtesanship you created in this story is an intriguing one that has me very interested. I'm thinking about the social consequences, too. But I also think that the danger for any Elf taking the collar to develop the mindset of a true slave - and having trouble to get rid of it again afterwards - is very real, especially if there are Elves around who *treat* the ones who take the collar as true slaves. As Haldir seems to do, at least with his own courtesan and Legolas. In so far, some of the concerns of 'Thranduil Oropherion' about the courtesanship resembling intendured slavery and the oath of the collar meaning giving up the right of consent are not entirely unfounded, in my view. However, I trust you to resolve this riddle and give more background information about this later in your story, and I hope you will at some point in the future deal with it again; perhaps, showing us how Legolas view of the oath develops in time with his experiences of courtesanship in regard to the way he felt about it in the chapter with Glorfindel helping him to accept it.

Anyway. *I* really like your story. I think the harsher warnings are okay, but I never had any problems with your universe before you took to them, too. There *are* a few stories at aff.net where I *have* problems to read, in spite of my own very dark tale of utter slavery and non-consent; for example, Esteliel's 'Cuil Eden' and 'Anestel' are hard to read for me, because they push some buttons for me that make me squirm and shudder away from them. But that does *not* mean they aren't masterfully written, and I do *not* need to give negative feedback. I simply do not read them anymore after I found out they are not my cup of tea at some pointt in early chapters. I wonder why the one reviewing under the name of Thranduil Oropherion did not follow that rule with your fic.

Write on, please, because this story is truly interesting!

Cheers, Aislynn Crowdaughter
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From ANON - Anon on April 08, 2006
Ertia,

Please don't spend your time and effort answering this person point for point, who obviously will *never* be happy with your fic. Instead channel your efforts into writing another wickedly wonderful chapter for us, with all these characters you have splendidly crafted and created, and please keep them untarnished and unchanged by this person's disapproval. Think of all the readers who normally read and then fire off one or two lines to you asking for "More" and "Quickly". These are your audience, not this sanctimonious malcontent.

This fandon is jammed packed with people who have issues with the kinds of sexual and power situations authors put their characters into, and/or who object to any diversion at all from Tolkein cannon. Yet like a horrifying train wreck, these people can't seem to turn away. They pruriently watch and read as long as they can stand (often months or even years), and then when finally they feel they have sullied themselves to the point of self-disgust, they fire off letters and reviews blaming the author for insidiously corrupting the innocents; exactly as our 'Mirkwood King' has done above. Yet this particular person takes it one step further by implying that you too are a victim of your own craft. "I find the fact that you and your positive reviewers seem unaware of the casual cruelty being expressed in this story, and that you find the spectacle of an elf's spirit being slowly broken to be erotic, to be the most chilling of all." HA!!! I guess those are the dangers we all face when we unsuspectingly wade into the swamp of online pornography.

"By the way, I very much enjoyed "Lessons." Everyone in that story had a good time and no one was hurt or humiliated. That is why I gave this one a try, to my everlasting grief." So I ask, oh Mirkwood King, why not spare yourself further grief and read elsewhere? Why didn't you stop reading after Glorfindel 'broke' Legolas in the forest? Don't tell me it was because the lack of warnings lured you into believing this story was going to be nothing but sweetness and light!? You were enjoying the fic. Sure you can say the light, frivolous and innocent parts lured you along, but then the disturbing darkfic elements started creeping in. Many of us would say that is simply good writing. Ertia is amazing at being able to weave the two so artfully together. (Side note to Thranduil Oropherion; your patronizing remark to go read up on the Stockholm Syndrome was pathetic. Don�t think for a minute Ertia or ANY author isn�t fully aware of what she is doing and the psychological implications of her character�s acts.)

Ertia, there is hope!! Our Mirkwood King writes; �I am quite familiar with the early chapters of this story, and the reviews of them. I noted that after two early protests the critics gave up and went away.� Hummmmmm�

This is all I will write on this matter here, for this board should be for left for reviews of Ertia�s story, and I am instead making the offense of reviewing the review.

Gabby

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From ANON - Thranduil Oropherion on April 07, 2006
My Dear Miss Ertia,

You accuse me of underhanded tactics of which I am not guilty. I rated your story as many times as I reviewed it. You have my word on that.

The new set of warnings are much better, however they are still inadequate. I am quite familiar with the early chapters of this story, and the reviews of them. I noted that after two early protests the critics gave up and went away. I thought it might be time for a little reality check.

This story starts out, as you say, seemingly charming and innocent, enough to lure you into expecting a jolly sex romp for Prince Legolas in Lothlorien. What's not to like? But then you seem to lose control of it, introducing elements of darkfic that are all the more upsetting because of the light and humorous tones of the early chapters. Legolas's tears in the forest as Glorfindel has him recite the oath of courtesanship and divest himself of his name and identity was where it all began to go wrong. That wax a psychotic break, my dear, and you don't even seem to know it.

Then we have Galadriel's hilarious sex prank on Legolas so that he may be punished for Celeborn to enjoy and Haldir to sneer at -- and this after Mirie had told him it was ennobling to give oneself in trust to another. His new owners cannot be trusted, as it was obvious this had been planned all along.

And then the scene between Legolas and Celeborn, which comes as close as possible to a 'marital rape' as one can get. His only consent to that was signing the contract and swearing the oath. He can now look forward to fourteen and a half more years of the same, or worse, if it suits his lord and owner. And view his response to it -- "I deserved that because I've treated courtesans selfishly in the past." If Legolas has indeed ever treated acourtesan or any other elf that way, those scenes were missing from the early chapters. Legolas's BDSM affair with the Mirkwood guard was consensual, and his blowjob from Mirie was actually at her ionstigation.

In fact, if any elf is guilty discourtesy towards those he considers to be his inferiors, it would be Marchwarden Haldir with his blatant contempt for the male courtesans.

I'm sure you intended Legolas's submission to the 'rough sex' and the slap to be a charming humility. Some of us are seeing it as Stockholm Syndrome. Read up on it.

I am most sorry to lob a rotten tomato at your work of art, but you can expect a few of them if you write a story like this one. At least 'Celebrian' and 'An Orcish Surprise' were upfront and honest about what they were.

By the way, I very much enjoyed "Lessons." Everyone in that story had a good time and no one was hurt or humiliated. That is why I gave this one a try, to my everlasting grief.

Oh, and that whirring sound? It's Prof. Tolkien spinning in his grave.

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From Ertia on April 06, 2006
My Liege Lord Thranduil,
Let me be certain I understand your intent. From your most recent review, it appears that it is not the subject matter that I am writing but the lack of appropriate warning for unsuspecting readers? I had not realized when I posted this that only the 'oral' warning had remained out of the list of things that I checked. I have sought to remedy the situation and hope that you find the current warning satisfactory.

That being said, I'm dismayed at what appears to be underhanded and vicious tactics to reduce my ratings! I know full well that this story has not been actually read 133 times, especially when I can see that others who have posted their works above me have been read once or perhaps five times. I can only assume that it is being opened in order to click the 'ratings' button and lower my rating. Over the course of the afternoon I've watched my rating drop and rise like a yo yo, from 3 to 5 to 3 and down again to to 3, where I believe it's currently sitting.

Since I began posting "Fifteen Years" 22 chapters and over a year ago, it has never held less than a 4 rate. Such childish and abusive tactics seem far better suited to the Harry Potter forum, do they not?

I certainly hope that you are too honorable for such tactics, and would be highly disappointed to learn that you are behind them.
If, however, it is the case that you are responsible, I would suggest that you go play with your treasure or imprison some innocent Dwarves or something.

Ever Your Servant,
Ertia, the Lost Love Slave

Gabby,
dearest, please do not desecrate innocent butterflies or kick kittens! It's just not nice. If you must kick something, I suggest Glorfindel. I hear he, on occassion, enjoys a good kicking. But be sure to ask his permission first. We wouldn't want any non-consensual kicking going on!

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From ANON - Anon on April 06, 2006
Evil Ertia,

Another beautiful and wonderfully entertaining chapter of Fifteen Years. Thank you for posting and not giving up on AFF! Please don�t let us wait too long for another chapter!!

Dear person posing as Thranduil, you are so RIGHT. Bad BAD Ertia for luring us poor unsuspecting readers into erotic enjoyment of casual cruelty and the spectacle of an elf's spirit being slowly broken!! I was so innocent and naive before is stumbled across this story. I never imagined I would love watching Legolas getting slapped around or used sexually. It�s truly chilling. BAD Ertia.

But I suspect most people reading this story don�t see things the same way you do, and really enjoy Legolas� situational powerlessness, a situation he himself entered into not only willingly, but fully cognitive of what the role of courtesan entailed, having lived in his father�s halls and enjoyed privileges of such himself, and for a contract period of only fifteen years. And if he wasn�t quite aware of what it was like on the other side of the fence, he is slowly coming to recognize it now, and like a mature elf, not whining, making the best of it, and taking his knocks when they come.

As for the collar, the unbraided hair, etc., these are symbolic gestures to remind the courtesan and those around him of his or her status, and never once have I read this as nonconsensual slavery. In my opinion, nonconsensual slavery, fictional or otherwise, is a far cry from what Ertia is writing about. In fact i don't see anything nonconsensual in her story. Now go and bugger some subjects!!! (wrestles bottle of miruvor out of Celeborn's hand and takes a swig)

Again, KUDOS to Ertia for continuing to slowly seduce and corrupt and poison my innocent mind. Next she will have me pulling the wings of butterflies and kicking kittens.

-Gabby

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From ANON - Thranduil Oropherion on April 06, 2006
My Dear Miss Ertia,

It is as I feared. You seem to think that the soul killing indignites you are subjecting my son (and every other elf in the collar) to will somehow build his character and make him a more sensitive and caring individual. I beg to differ, as it has not had that effect on Lord Celeborn, Lady Galadriel, Marchwarden Haldir, or any of the other Lothlorien elves. Ah, but they have not worn the collar! Perhaps it is the system that is evil, teaching otherwise good elves that their fellows are to be used as playthings and broken at will.

I find the fact that you and your positive reviewers seem unaware of the casual cruelty being expressed in this story, and that you find the spectacle of an elf's spirit being slowly broken to be erotic, to be the most chilling of all.

In what ways, pray tell, have I failed as a father? Even in your story, I raised a son who cared enough about the sorrows of others to offer himself in place of an elf who would otherwise have been traded. His only mistake was getting into something he had no conception of, since no 'courtesan' was every treated unkindly in Mirkwood that he (or we the readers) ever could see. Was he warned that, despite what he was told, the office of 'courtesan' was not a respected calling, and that by signing the oath he would be forgoing his right to consent, leaving him with no more dignity than a chamberpot? Believe me, I shall be having a word with Miss Mirie for misleading the two of us, should she be unwise enough to wander into Mirkwood again.

That would be unlikely, since I will not have slaves or prostitutes in my realm. I much prefer my sexual partners to be willing and under no duress or bond. Silly me!

As for Miss Crowdaughter, she had the kindness to label her story as a slavefic containing elements of non-con so that sensitive individuals might know what they were getting into, so that they would not be in the position of trying to remove this depraved little tale from their tortured brain, as I am now forced to do. At least in that tale, we know whose side we're supposed to be on. This tale is neither charming, nor innocent, as its summary purported it to be.

I thank you for your concern for my realm, but it is hardly as overrun by yrcch and ungols as you believe. This is because I spend my time defending it, rather than buggering my subjects silly, as you have portrayed Celeborn and myself (and no doubt poor Elrond) to be doing. Thank you, however, for the nod to our prowess. I will now be forced to visit my true kinsman, Celeborn, as he has somehow read this story too and is reported by his wife to be locked in his talan with a case of miruvor, refusing to come out. He was always a sensitive lad.

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From Ertia on April 05, 2006
Dearest King Thranduil,

I send my most embarrassed apologies. I am sorry that you do not find my charming and innocent little tale to your liking.
But come now! Waging war against Lothlorien over such a little thing? Can you truly spare an army for such efforts? Especially when your own kingdom is nearly overrun by yrch and ungol?
I do admit that perhaps my Lord Celeborn has been a bit hasty of late, but I beg your understanding of the great pressures he is under. I promise to have a word with him about his behavior. As for Legolas himself, well, I think perhaps it's time your spoilt and pampered son learn some lessons on respect and courtesy, as well as respect for those he feels beneath him. If you had done your fatherly duties properly, he would not need to learn such harsh lessons now. But I speak out of turn. Forgive me, my lord, perhaps it is the absence of his mother which is to blame.
Whatever the fault, I can assure you that when my tale has ended, it will a be stronger, kinder Prince who returns to Mirkwood. I have seen of his future, and I believe his lessons now will set him to good stead. I beg your forebearance.

Ever Your Servant,

Ertia, The Lost Love Slave

ps- Perhaps you should turn your attention towards Lord Elrond, and the mischief he has caused your son at the hands of Crowdaughter in her epic "Mael Gul'?
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From ANON - Thranduil Oropherion on April 05, 2006
My dear young lady. You need to learn the difference between 'courtesans' and indentured sex slaves. No courtesan I ever heard of had to wear a collar, nor did they give up the right to their personal autonomy.

I greatly resent your characterization of myself, plotting to enter my son into such a degrading situation. You may have had me laughing in the early chapter, but I assure you, I am not laughing now, as you describe Celeborn bending my son over a bed and taking him with minimal preparation as if he were an object rather than a sentient being. No elf deserves such treatment, whether he or she be a stablehand, a kitchen wench, or a prince. The slap across the face for daring to defend a helpless elleth was the last straw.

My armies are preparing to march, and if they can somehow find their way into your strange and twisted AU world where elves degrade one another, the imposter masquerading as my kinsman, Celeborn, will be in some trouble.
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From Aislynn on April 05, 2006
Hi, Ertia!
Wonderful new chapter! I was terrified what would happen to Sarnlass for his transgression, since I was sutre from Illenes reaction that Haldir had not hurt her, but at least it turned out better than I thought. I just hope Sarnlass and Haldir will setle their diferences before the end. but Haldir seems to have a real attitude-problem. And now, the humans are going to attack Lothlorien? Or would that be the Orcs from Dol-Guldur? I any case, I am glad to see you continue this story. I love it very much!

Cheers,

Aislynn
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From ANON - icra12000 on April 05, 2006
GGGRRRRR
Strange Haldir and poor Legolas. And a war. You are machiavelic.
You are a master...

Thank you
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From ANON - MarzBar on April 05, 2006
Ta da!! I am so happy to see this story again. I went to the "read only" site to read the last two chapters then came back here for the latest. Poor Legolas (for being gallant at the worst possible time) and poor Haldir (for acting like a cold fish) and getting blamed by an incognito prince for injuring a lady. Will they work it out in the battles ahead? Evil cliffie, BTW.
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